Kate aka Frank Lee Madir on Asexual Drag King Performance
The Kings of Joy Show with Danica Lani, The King Coach.
Danica Lani: Ever looked in the mirror and thought, "I'd make a damn fine Drag King." Welcome to Kings of Joy, the Drag King podcast where gender isn't something to fear, it's something to play with. I'm Danica Lani, The King Coach, mentor to over 150 first-time Drag Kings, and I'm taking you backstage into the unruly, magical world of Drag King transformation. If you're craving confidence, community, and a crew that gets it, you just found your crown. Connect with us on Instagram @KingsofJoy for behind-the-scenes content and updates. We'd love to hear from you.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: It's not like I haven't explored gender in my life. I I've I've done plenty, but they that was still always within the limits of what was really available. I mean, I I consider myself genderqueer as I have from like the first time I heard that term. Yeah. And that's great. I didn't realise quite how much it had been restricted by the people around me and their expectations, especially as I aged and grew and didn't have the body that fit the uniform, right, that other people were playing it with gender in the very particular ways that that were popular and supported at various times.
Danica Lani: At Kings of Joy, we acknowledge and pay our respects to the Gadigal people of the Eora nation, traditional custodians of the land on which we live, work, and play. In this episode, I had the privilege of speaking with Kate aka Frank Lee Madir. Kate is an activist, educator, archivist, and community builder working across many intersecting communities and causes from queerness and neurodivergence to informal and non-formal education, unemployment, and community housing. As Frank Lee, he enjoys having something meaningful to say, letting others create different faces for him, and figuring out what it can mean to be an asexual Drag King, and aspires to one day manage a solo that isn't driven by a stage full of props. Welcome Kate aka Frank Lee Madir to The Kings of Joy Show. Thanks for being here.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: My pleasure. Yeah, looking forward to it.
Danica Lani: Me, too. In fact, we've been talking about this for a couple of years, really, haven't we? We've wanted this conversation for a long time. But before we dive into the topic today, um, I wanted to just start with let's start with your origin story. Like how, why and how did you become a Drag King?
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: Well, I've I've been on stages for improbable things here and there through my life, but never really considered myself a performer. And I like to to dance, but I haven't I haven't had much of that in my life for quite a while. Adulting takes over or, well, doesn't, but, uh, threatens to, tries to.
Danica Lani: Yes. Stops you doing things even if you don't get to do the other things.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: Yeah. Uh, but a friend brought me to a Queers of Joy show. So that was the third ann, the second anniversary three years ago. Wow. And I saw these people up on stage doing this spectacular job and got told that they were really new at it and it's achievable, and I had to try that.
Danica Lani: Oh well, I'm so glad you did. I'm so glad you said yes and jumped in. And, uh, so tell us about your persona that you created. Introduce us to Frank.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: Well, Frank Lee Madir was originally modelled off, uh, Stuart from the the comic Dykes to Watch Out For.
Danica Lani: Yes.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: Yeah. The '90s. Alison Bechdel.
Danica Lani: Bechdel. Yes. Fabulous.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: And so, yes, the character is like the token boy of of pretty much the whole community that she she illustrates. And he is comfortable with that and gets around in like a utility kilt, kilt-like thing with big pockets and pockets. And yeah, goes barefoot when he can and is just a big hippie and but is part of the community despite his receding hairline and very male paunch and it, yeah, it's it was a way into to to grappling with, uh, masculinity and different options in gender from. It's not like I haven't explored gender in my life. I have, I've done plenty. But they that was still always within the limits of what was really available, what was shown to you at any given time and place. So in in the world of like student politics and queer spaces and fighting them and and activism there and feminism and trying to reconcile the two different streams that should go together very well, but there are various reasons why they don't always. And I I I position myself in a certain place which is I'm not unhappy with. I mean, I I I consider myself genderqueer as I have from like the first time I heard that term.
Danica Lani: Yeah.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: And that's great. But there's the the way I was able to play with it was actually quite a lot restricted. The I I didn't realise quite how much it had been restricted by the people around me and their expectations, especially as I aged and grew and didn't have the body that fit the uniform, right, that other people were playing it with gender in the very particular ways that that were popular and supported at at various times.
Danica Lani: Yes. Yeah. And so being in the Kings of Joy group, what was that like when you said yes and got to explore some of these things?
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: It was amazing. I, uh, yeah, it was very intense.
Danica Lani: Yeah.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: But very well supported. So, uh, there were six of us in in our group and we were all all quite different. But I was exploring letting my belly hang out.
Danica Lani: Yes.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: And I went and found a kilt to to portray this character because I I had complicated feelings about just wearing pants to to portray masculinity when, well, we wear pants a lot in general. Other people more than me usually. So yeah, I I only wore that that outfit, I think, twice because we we had the privilege of performing the week after our our first, our debut. But it it was this transition that helped me figure out how I could move differently, how I could be comfortable in my body in a different way from usual. I'm used used to holding in the bits that, uh, you're supposed to and emphasising, well, maybe not quite as much as you're supposed to, but but still playing within those, negotiating within those rules. And this was a completely other set of rules that weren't really rules and weren't there. And they're just these perceptions of what you know is out there in in the wild of of like the heteronormative world.
Danica Lani: Yes.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: For for the boys who were always a bit separate but but now integrating them, I mean, was, uh, yeah, learning to, uh, have a different centre of gravity because your gravity isn't just a a a physics construct when you're a moving body and wearing the belt lower and and just moving around that.
Danica Lani: Yes.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: Wearing stompy boots and which I I have done at various times in my life, but but actually being able to not apologise for them.
Danica Lani: Yes.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: Not not, uh, work around them.
Danica Lani: Yes.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: And yes, binding, taping, taping at the start and the freedom to move without bits moving. It's just amazing.
Danica Lani: Was there was it the first, uh, I don't remember. Was it the first routine, tune, routine or one of the others that there was a jump? "Oh no, I can't jump. I can't jump on stage." It was this massive effort and you go all over the place.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: Oh yeah. Well, even in big steel-cap boots and everything else without the, like your top half just moving all over the place, then movement's different.
Danica Lani: It's a revelation. It's a revelation and it's liberating I think, too, you know, to have, often people say that you know when they've, you know, I often help first-time Drag Kings bind backstage and, um, yeah the feeling of, "Oh wow, I feel so supported," or, "Wow, that's a relief," or, "Oh wow, I feel like I can move," you know, in new ways.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: Yes, because we have this whole world of structures that you could buy that go in and out of fashion and changed very much over my life. The people who are newly adults now look at, like, bras and think what we have now that with all the the padding on it, everything is normal but, uh, that was not a thing.
Danica Lani: No. No.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: H, being able to hide your nipples, not just having them there and having to be okay with that came in in what, the 2000s?
Danica Lani: Yes. And I know. And you have a very unique, um, and and skilled point of view which is your experience and expertise in costuming, right? So tell us a little bit about that. What is your background in costuming and how that's related to being a Drag King and masculinising?
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: Well, I've I feel like I've always sewn. I left school early and had to had to find something to do.
Danica Lani: Yes.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: Find some TAFE course to do and I learned. So that's that's what I went off and did before I got horribly bored of being treated like a child as some of the TAFE courses do. TAFE's great. It's just patchy.
Danica Lani: Yeah.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: Uh, and so yes, I I I I went off to to uni and and explored, well, activism more than anything else.
Danica Lani: Same. But yeah.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: Yeah. Student activism.
Danica Lani: Yes. It's, uh, so ridiculous but so wonderful and so important and so sad to have it mostly smashed now.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: But when that was my main focus, I would wear clothes. I would adjust my own clothes. But but every time something else came into my life, more more queer stuff, more something, there was always a need for to for me or or somebody else to present themselves in a certain way for a certain thing. We would screen-print t-shirts for student elections.
Danica Lani: Yes.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: We'd make costumes for Mardi Gras. Yes. And so I I've I've now made an awful lot of Mardi Gras costumes from ones for a whole float full, year after year after year, to Marie Antoinette confections for a first-time drag queen who did not want corsetry or constriction. So, okay, let's explore the 18th century and stretch.
Danica Lani: I love that. And by the way, your last year's, this year's Mardi Gras costume for yourself, you showed up with an incredible headpiece wig SL, but was made out of, what was that made out of?
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: It had foam.
Danica Lani: Foam. So, it's like foam. Like a very large headdress, silver, I think it was, wasn't it?
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: Yes. I did end up painting it silver, which was not the greatest idea, it turns out, because silver has actual metal in it, silver spray-painted, so it's not as flexible as plastic paints, right? But yes, so it was basically a skullcap made out of foam made to a pattern cuz heads are vaguely regularish. And then this noodle stuff. And I just went bit by bit and glued the ends of the noodles onto the the, uh, onto the foam like round the edges where I'd cut the the hairline to go. And then I had this Medusa-like.
Danica Lani: Yeah. So sticking out like, wow.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: Actually, I think further than I could could touch. And I had to wrangle it into some form of hair.
Danica Lani: Yes. You did brilliantly. It was fabulous. Very.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: So that was quite an interesting first attempt. There people have done these kinds of things. So I I could find some information on it. And I had a friend who was wonderful. Wouldn't have happened without them. Yes. But yes, when when I ended up not being responsible for like the final week of the the float that we made after being responsible for for all the rest, I went, "Oh, let's make it an ambitious costume because why not?"
Danica Lani: That's exactly what Kate would do. And with Frank's help, I'm sure.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: It was also the the cummerbund and the spats. Yes. Yes. To go with with the the, uh, it was a full wig with beard that was velcroed on which was also mostly on end bits of noodle.
Danica Lani: It was so effective. And I've loved Frank's, you know, he's he's definitely been that archetype of the dapper gentleman, you know, I would say. And seeing that come through in the in the costumes after you did Kings of Joy in the first group, the debut, and then got to perform at Drag Kingdom reunion again. Um, we we've done some solo work together as well for Frank and yeah, fulfilled on a couple of visions and and things. Tell us about that.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: Well, uh, the first solo I did, I actually put together myself very quickly and I I was still in the space even after these two performances of, "Oh, I could never do that. I couldn't do a solo." I mean, it's one thing following other people's choreography. Yeah. And I absolutely, I was a tap dancer as a child. So, it's very much choreography-based. And I I do love that. I wish my knees would support tap and but there's a great anxiety about choreography, about making the choices about representing myself in a way that isn't just how well I can follow some, like, instructions that are verified that somebody else has has said, "Yes, this is good, this is what you should do," right? So that was quite a surprise to have a fun idea and and one of the other people in my group was also a very much made-things-happen. And so what, a couple of weeks after this was all happening, it's, "Okay, we're we're running a fundraiser show." "What? Okay, I better try and do something." Yeah. So I I had brought, well the way you you start the the programs getting us to, uh, getting us to find music to to bring and to offer from which, yes, you you choose what what we'll use. But I wasn't the only one in that group, and probably who who found we don't really listen to men singing very much.
Danica Lani: Yes. That's been a strange thing for me too, being a Drag King coach, is prior to doing this while delving into Drag Kinging, I would listen to female vocals.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: Yes. Almost exclusively. And and yes, there have been times, yeah, and bits and some jazz and some this and but nothing was really appropriate. But I found some Queen songs.
Danica Lani: Yes.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: And and lovely stuff. So, so much of it and so so varied and so I I had that on the mind and I still do three years later. All my three solos have been Queen songs. Yes, partly because it works for me and the tempo I think is a little slower some than some modern things and but it works for well, it has worked for my character and I'm okay with with the getting typecast into Queen, that's all right. Yeah, don't, so the first one was "I'm in Love with My Car." The most ridiculous song possibly that they wrote although that's a there's competition.
Danica Lani: Yeah.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: But but yes, my car is very important to me.
Danica Lani: Yes.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: And I do work for a mechanic and have car parts around. So, and you've got a beautiful orange 1971 Volkswagen Beetle.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: Yes. Yes. Matching your suit.
Danica Lani: Yes. Today.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: Yes. Quite close.
Danica Lani: Yes. Um, so that was the first one and then we continued on and explored Frank and part of the, um, share with us the the intersection of identity and what we started to discover with, how do you identify?
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: Oh, for gender, yes.
Danica Lani: Or sexuality, like any anything about how you identify.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: Oh well, well yes, so yeah I said genderqueer, also asexual.
Danica Lani: Yes.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: And queer and a bunch of other things. But the the asexuality is something to grapple with in the in in the Drag King world.
Danica Lani: Yeah, it has been. We've had some good conversations about asexuality and Drag Kinging.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: So, I don't think I would have had half as much to say if we had actually had this conversation a couple of years ago because we've, uh, we've worked on finding ways to actually be an ace Drag King. Mhm. Yeah. So, so that that second, um, piece I got up in all my my, uh, top hat and tailcoat and.
Danica Lani: Fabulous.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: Yeah.
Danica Lani: So many layers to that costume.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: Yes.
Danica Lani: So authentic. Well done. Yeah.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: Well, well, yes, they are actually vintage pieces that I've carefully collected over time.
Danica Lani: Amazing.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: And did used to wear on the street at a time when I, like, lived around Newtown and but not as male. Yes, that was that was always a, I mean, a tailcoat is kind of the fey-est of all, like, menswear ever that is still in the current, like, repertoire at all. It's just it is. So when back when I was doing that, people were still talking a lot about butch and femme.
Danica Lani: Yes.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: And I, people would interpret me in various ways because of what I was wearing and I was always a little, they weren't right.
Danica Lani: Yes. They got it wrong a lot of times. Wearing a suit does not actually mean...
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: Yeah. Equal. Yeah. But it was interesting. So, taking that to a very explicit choreographed place with a with a story and some subtext. I I think the the ace stuff was definitely subtext. It's definitely, one one day I'll I'll, uh, maybe, uh, work on, like, editing music and not just use one song, but until that you're kind of limited to what other people have said.
Danica Lani: I think you did that really well though. So, you know, part of it was that yes, Frank is going to turn up in this immaculate, beautiful vintage suit with all the layers and all of the detail and then he is going to take layers off, but not in a sexual way, not in a stripping way as such cuz, uh, we talked a lot about how do, how, how do you be ace and be a Drag King and be expressive. Um, I remember we talked quite a bit about, um, other qualities like, um, being affectionate, you know, and friendship and affection and other other kinships in a way.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: Yes. Yeah. Which was delightful to work with.
Danica Lani: Yes.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: Yeah. It was it was on on stage with props to transfer those ideas to an object is kind of cute, but but it's also was a a way to, yes, express, uh, emotions that aren't, I mean they're not absent but they're not the go-to, right, emotions for you think of Drag Kings you think of, well, not even just you think of when we have a show and somebody is on stage, everybody knows when to cheer, when to holler, right, when to applaud. And and these signals are built quite a lot on sex.
Danica Lani: That's right.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: On on the suggestion of sex. Simulation of sex sometimes.
Danica Lani: Exactly.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: And on on, uh, reveals.
Danica Lani: Yes.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: So showing off, well generally skin. But not not only. And I've been thinking a lot about this because, uh, we've had some kids get up on various stages, too, and they're they're definitely not doing that but seen a couple of amazing performances from kids who seriously, they the adults in their life are are into this so they're exposed to it so they want to get up and perform, right? Why not? So there's been a lot of, like, high kicks and acrobatic kind of things that light little children can absolutely do. Yes. And they, the two kids I've seen have both looked like instinctively knew what was going on and performed for the same beats as we would with different different moves.
Danica Lani: Yes.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: Ones appropriate to them. Yes. And everyone knows what's going on and they got the same applause and absolute admiration as anyone gets getting up and doing something good. And it it fitted in into the, not the model, the into the the, uh, the format that we understand that we have built collectively.
Danica Lani: Yes.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: Because it's not it's not the same as everywhere. In fact, when the other night we went out and performed at, uh, Heaven's Dance out in Cabramatta.
Danica Lani: Yes.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: Uh, basically a drag queen event and we we were the first Drag Kings and it was lovely. But I was up there. I think we were doing a good job, but the room was silent.
Danica Lani: Yeah.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: And I'm there doing the routine and going, "Oh no, oh no. Do they not like us?" But no, they loved us. All the comments at the end of, a lot of people sought us out to to tell us how much they loved it.
Danica Lani: Yeah.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: But they they were appreciating it from a perspective outside of that culture that we have built.
Danica Lani: Yes.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: So they weren't knowing when is the right time to interact with us in the way our regular audiences would.
Danica Lani: Yes. They weren't responding from a sexual place, probably, cuz that's not their, you know, they're not.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: Well, yes and no. But the comments afterwards, especially from the MC, were were very very much very sexual. Actually, yes, they were appreciated. They they were wanting to show what genders we were, right?
Danica Lani: There was confusion. Sometimes that happens. Gender confusion. Like I've had someone at a bar when I was dressed in full drag, uh, a gay boy chat me up, absolutely flirt with me, and then introduce me to all his friends who were all like, "Who's this handsome, you know, who is this?" You know what it's like?
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: I've never had that experience. And it was like being let into this world that I'd never experienced before. Attention from gay gay boys. Very strange.
Danica Lani: Fascinating. Different.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: Very different. Distinctly different. So yeah. So there you were at the gig and then people giving you the praise and acknowledging you for for that. But it's very interesting in what you're talking about the the, you know, the format, the ways audience responds, how they know when to clap and when to cheer and and those those key moments that get communicated. And so yeah, how have you, um, taken that into your own personal practice of being a Drag King and being ace?
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: Well, I think that's still in progress, but I have been exploring how do you work with these moments? How do you, how do you build the flow of a piece?
Danica Lani: Yeah.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: In alternate ways. Yes. And so, yes, showing affection and like then like big grin at the crowd or something and interaction. Interaction is absolutely one of one of the things you can do, but it's not generally like well, it's got to be be a big showy one to be the pinnacle of the piece, to build. Yeah. I've also been, uh, exploring ways to not show skin.
Danica Lani: Yes.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: Which is interesting because actually I'm all for showing skin.
Danica Lani: Yes.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: I'd love us all to just walk around only wear clothes when they're actually needed.
Danica Lani: Yes.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: Like for warmth and things.
Danica Lani: Yes. Climate control.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: Wouldn't life just be simpler? Well, then people going, "Oh, no. Oh, I don't want people to see me like this." And of... yeah, but you wouldn't care if everybody was doing it, right?
Danica Lani: Right. If it was normalised.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: Yeah. So, on one hand, I'm exploring how to not use nudity and reveals and reveals of skin as a beat that that reads as sexual. Yes. Because I I think, yeah, desexualising nudity is, like, really important. The, yeah, sexuality in general overall is both still so taboo in so many ways, yet so oversaturated that it's this mix. And people who know I'm ace often do things like apologising for a dirty joke in front of me or or showing skin or or talking about bodies in a perfectly open way. Yeah, as if I'm uncomfortable with that, not actually society in general. It's a common misunderstanding. And but I mean there are also some ace people who absolutely want nothing to do with any of that.
Danica Lani: Yes.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: So very very, we're a very mixed bag. There'll probably be more divisions and changes over time eventually. Yeah. But, um, what was I saying? Uh, so yes, in in the the the tailcoat solo, I stripped down to my rather long, period 19th-century shirt.
Danica Lani: Yes.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: Which is bigger than like a mini dress. So I didn't actually show very much other than like.
Danica Lani: Yeah.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: I can't get rid of me. But but I I quite explicitly was exploring how that does the same thing in in some ways. So I'm sure there's more to find.
Danica Lani: Yes.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: And and yes, uh, tear-away pants are fun. And walking around at the end of a show because you're allowed to, because you're taped up and wearing very little and just going, "Ah," yes, is is is wonderful. Yes. But in, it's it's framed in a way that is, well, it's all sorts of things, but part of it is this is performance. Also, this is a safe space that we have, also, yes, you have largely carefully created. So you can't just throw that kind of thing around anywhere without preparation. Not in this world.
Danica Lani: Yeah. And context. And you've taken, um, some of this exploration and then taken it into your next solo which was a very powerful piece about, uh, making a political stand, you know, and using political commentary and stand as as a performance genre in a way that involved the audience getting up on stage at the end and joining the protest and the signs with the, you know. So yeah, how was that evolution?
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: That that was amazing. So the the, uh, the previous one spoke to some parts of me. I, yeah, if I'm acting, I'm I'm I'm not acting outside of me. I never have. I'm not quite sure how that works, but there there are different parts of me. And that really spoke to some things, but the, I wanted all the the protests on, that was that was very core to me. And so I had asked you. So yes, you the the other one I got you to come in and rescue my choreography when when I had gotten as far as I could and was stuck for how to how to get the transitions right and how to make it work. But this one, yes, you created whole cloth from. So what I asked, I I wanted, I was specifically looking for a a sense of strength, of power. And and yes, that that was, well, it's a lot of things. It's a, was amazing to to feel in in general, but it was also was absolutely a a an alternate version of of finding a stage presence that is powerful, that is not leaning on, drawing on, alluding to sex.
Danica Lani: That's right.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: In a way that is fine in a a group. It's all fine, but it's not not really core to me. It's it's more performing. So, what you made for me was wonderful. It's it's got it's got a lot of things. I I I did a lot of work on writing four placards and and like a banner with like seven different messages on it in the end and and this and this and this. I say that and all of these things because it is called "I Want It All."
Danica Lani: Exactly. Yeah. It all has to get expressed.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: Yeah. I I made a flow that that is things that are important to me and not just messages and slogans that are important to me but but the build of. So we started with Free Block 13, which I believe in very very much. The the people being stuck in a refugee camp, especially people who are extra vulnerable in that camp because of their sexualities and genders that. Yeah. Get them out of there. Help. We help. We help. We support. We do what we can.
Danica Lani: Yes.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: But I in in anything, if it gets simplistic and we narrow our focus on just those people, I'm going to get a little antsy because there's a whole world to fix. Otherwise, it'll happen just again to the next batch of people and well, you've helped a few people and that's great, but blah.
Danica Lani: Yes. We're talking systemic change.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: Yeah.
Danica Lani: Yes. And I I really want people to remember that that is always like what it comes to.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: So, so that transition to going from a slogan that we know well in this space and really support and understand and are comfortable with to, "Oh, let's think about this is all all connected," and and yes, well, systemic is the word. It's it's more structured than just this one thought. So I got to put that together with a lot of really powerful movements. There was a lot of fists in the air. There were, is fine. I mean that's, I I think, communicated, we've come through some some similar stuff and we go, gone to protests where that is actually literally what you do, expected. You go along like this.
Danica Lani: That's right.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: And that these days it's probably would be a little gauche, I think. I I don't know. I don't know. I I should have been to more protests recently, obviously, but but but that was the physical language of a time that where I got my start and my understanding of what's important in the world.
Danica Lani: Yes.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: So it resonates with me.
Danica Lani: Yes.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: And then the trick is to make it resonate to other people.
Danica Lani: Yeah.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: But I I think we did.
Danica Lani: Yes. That was very effective. And you came out on stage in a brilliant, beautiful yellow jacket number that was very Freddie Mercury. It had the straps that go across the chest.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: Yes. It was a reproduction of his iconic Live Aid jacket.
Danica Lani: Yes.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: And I found that in the the, uh, clothing swap, clothing library, whatever.
Danica Lani: Did you? In the Kings of Joy community wardrobe.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: Yes.
Danica Lani: Wow. So someone had brought that in and people could take what they wanted and you found that jacket. I mean, talk about alignment. That's perfect, isn't it?
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: It was there. It fit me. I knew what it was and it started the whole idea.
Danica Lani: Yes, that's right. So it started from one costume piece which is a a beautiful way to start. And I'll say too, like for people who are listening who might be an aspiring Drag King, um, knowing where to start is often the hardest place. So, I've created some resources and one resource that I've got, a free resource, is about, um, how to come up with a Drag King name because that could be a really fun place to start in four simple steps. Uh, and you can download that at danicalani.com/dragkingname. Um, so, but Kate, what would you say to an aspiring Drag King who's listening now?
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: Well, I' I'd say it's worth exploring. Come join us. There are there are many ways in. And yes, name's a good one. I was lucky. Somebody who was more punny than me gave me my name and I just went, "Yes, thank you. That's perfect." But yes, costumes have have helped. The music has, well, it took a while to to figure that out, but but that that's got some ideas and there are so so many different ways that I've seen other people amongst the what, 150 people have gone through now?
Danica Lani: Yes.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: And a lovely number have stuck around, too, when I've gotten to know them beyond that whirlwind of the first thing. The whirlwind is is wonderful and you can do that and walk away to the rest of your life. Just like anything else, you need different things in your life. And I I run a lot of groups and political groups, social groups, whatever. They're all, I have a message, but we always get a lot of people coming in and they come along, they go, "Oh, wow. Isn't this a lovely spa space?" They blurt their story, they do the thing, and you never see them again. And it's a bit sad sometimes, but that's perfectly fine, right? That's necessary. And you can do that here, too, and do your weeks and come away a bit transformed, a bit with a just a bit extra to put on on your everyday life.
Danica Lani: Yeah.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: Or you can stick around and and find more and more and more because this is gender and sexuality and society and presentation and performance and the world and and there is a lot to find and, well, lovely people to to do it with.
Danica Lani: There are. There are. That's beautiful. And if I gave you or Frank Lee Madir a magic wand and you could just create a thriving Drag King scene, what would that look like?
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: Uh, I would love us to have permanent space because that's something that I grapple with in all all communities and a performance community, performance-based community certainly very much falls into that thing where when it's on, it's on, and then you go away until somebody organises the next thing. So something, I would like to see things more integrated. I would like to see Sydney not be so dispersed. So it's so it's easier for us to, uh, to yes to be more integrated, to talk, to think, to bounce ideas, and then to do all together where we live in some walkable utopia that we...
Danica Lani: Yes. Well, hopefully we can create, working on some things.
Kate aka Frank Lee Madir: Great.
Danica Lani: I'm so glad you are and so thank you for all of your contribution and your energy and your commitment to community for many years, many many many years that you've been a a contribution, Kate. So, and thanks for being here today on The Kings of Joy Show.
Danica Lani: Welcome to the kingdom. Pull up the chair. Real stories. We go there from debut through the journey we're making. This is Kings of Joy. Here's the crown you're claiming. Welcome to the kingdom. Kings. The journey to the kingdom. This is Kings of Joy. Here's the crown. Here's the crown. Welcome to the kingdom. Kings. From day to the journey we're making. This is Kings of Joy. Here's the crown you're claiming.
