Charlie aka Bear Back on Gender Discovery Through Drag Kinging
Transcript Charlie aka Bear Back The Kings of Joy Show ep6 season 2
Danica Lani: Ever looked in the mirror and thought, "I'd make a damn fine drag king." Welcome to Kings of Joy, the drag king podcast where gender isn't something to fear, it's something to play with. I'm Danica Lani, the King Coach, mentor to over 150 first-time drag kings, and I'm taking you backstage into the unruly, magical world of drag king transformation. If you're craving confidence, community, and a crew that gets it, you just found your crown. Connect with us on Instagram at Kings of Joy for behind-the-scenes content and updates. We'd love to hear from you.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): I now look back through my life and actually there was a lot of telltale signs that I just didn't—I didn't know what that meant. I had always wanted to be in that. I'd seen it and I was like, "I just hope one day I make it to be in that." And then you invited me and I was like, "Oh yes." I was so excited. We all got together and it was just like, "Oh, this beautiful community that just welcomes everyone in. Like everybody cares about each other. Everybody wants to support one another." And it was just amazing.
Danica Lani: At Kings of Joy, we acknowledge and pay our respects to the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation, the traditional custodians of the land on which we live, work, and play. In this episode, I had the privilege of speaking with Charlie, aka Bear Back. Charlie has always had one boot in the world of theater and the other kicking up dust on stage. They know their way around a stage inside and out. Whether it's devising wild new performances, building sets, or whipping up costumes and makeup that bring characters to life. Now stepping into their role as a Kings of Joy producer, Charlie is here to help grow a drag king scene built on community, connection, and joy. Welcome, Charlie.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): Howdy.
Danica Lani: Howdy, partner.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): I can bear back. Let's go.
Danica Lani: Yes. Welcome. Welcome to the Kings of Joy podcast show.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): Thank you for having me.
Danica Lani: What a pleasure.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): It's so exciting.
Danica Lani: I know. How are you doing?
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): I'm doing so well. I'm so happy. I'm just so happy. You know, speaking to Kings of Joy, you know, I wake up thinking about Drag Kings and I go to sleep thinking about Drag Kings. I dream about drag-kinging.
Danica Lani: The King Coach for a reason, you know.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): Yeah, of course.
Danica Lani: Yeah. So, welcome. I wanted to start with your story, your origin story of why—why did you even get into drag kinging? Like how did this even happen? What drew you?
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): Yes. Oh my goodness. Um, I had to rack my brain a little bit because I feel like the depths of—and the mists of time. Um, but I—so I'm—the accent obviously gives it away. I'm originally from London. Um, and I have a theater background, owned a theater company for like two years, which was super exciting. And then I always wanted to travel. So ended up, um, traveling around, came to Australia, fell in love, and stayed here—like fell in love with the country. It was this deal. I just—I think it was within two weeks I called my mom like, "I'm not coming back." Um, and she always knew that that would happen. So I was like—I was searching for, you know, a theater space and I couldn't really find where I kind of fit in. Um, and then just through some like friends I came—uh, I went to a drag show in Surry Hills and I was like this is cool. This is really fun—like just so creative and like alter ego and play and I was like I want to—I can do that. Like I want to do that and I—like I feel like I would be good at this. Um, and I was chatting away to a few people there that night and they were like you need to meet Danica. And I was like okay who is this Danica that you speak of? And there you were, you know, you just appeared out of mist. You know, it was like a real—it was a real moment. Um, and I was like, "Okay, right, go over, have a little chat." You gave me your email and I was like, "Brilliant, all right." I emailed you and then bam, lockdown happened. So, uh, so that went out the window for a little bit. Um, but then I think I—then as, um, I think did—I'm trying to think. I feel like I watched—like there was a lockdown video. There was a live Quiz of Joy.
Danica Lani: There was a Quiz of Joy show that we had that was online and that was the show that connected us um more closely to Lucricia and all the queer refugees who had fled Uganda um and living in Kakuma Kenya, block 13. So round about that time—like they came on to the online show. It just made the world um rounder, you know, when you connect people. And someone from Pakistan had bought a ticket. Someone from—you know, people from the US and the UK. You know, there were people all around um who buying tickets to come and watch Quiz of Joy which of course is the show that my spouse Chris um founded and platforms trans and gender diverse artists but alongside that has been the Kings of Joy program show and we've had groups of first time drag kings at every show for the last 5 years.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): Yes. So I watched that live one, I remember, and I was like, "Oh yes, I remember this. I need to get involved." And then I think it was—I really had to build myself up because there was a lot of imposter syndrome—like you know, can I perform anymore like I used to perform? Was I actually that good? Maybe I wasn't that good, you know, and it just—it really got to me. And then eventually I was like, "Okay, I'm going to do it." And I remember I was in Melbourne at the time and I joined the Zoom. Um, and I was just so excited and it was—and then we all got together and it was just like, oh, this beautiful community that just welcomes everyone in—like everybody cares about each other, everybody wants to support one another and it was just amazing. And—and yeah, that's how—that's how it began. Yeah.
Danica Lani: So good.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): It was so good.
Danica Lani: So good. And out of that, Bear Back was born.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): Yeah.
Danica Lani: Tell us about who—who is Bear Back?
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): So at one point I was just—I was really coming up with this character and I was like, you know, I like wanted to be like this cowboy and, you know, a bit of a lone wolf kind of vibe. Um, and I wanted to have a pun in my name. Um, although my partner recently—I was talking—I was explaining Bear Back the name and she was like, "Oh, I've just got it." And I was like it's been 3 years, we've literally been doing drag together. Um, and it only just kind of fit together and she's like, "Oh, okay". Um, so, um, but I remember like I was fleshing out the character and then I just had this moment where I was like, "This is my dad." And—there was like lots of elements of my dad. He's very—he's a biker and he's quite a lone wolf kind of vibe and I'd really kind of used that and made it gay—like and yeah, so I was like, "Okay, this is what—was this a daddy issue? I don't know". But we're exploring it. Um, yeah. So that's—so I—I loved the—I really wanted to play with, um, like playfulness of this mask but then turning slightly fem in moments and, um, that's it. Yeah, it was—it was a way for me to express different parts of myself. And I think that's the great thing about drag is that you can—you can really start to pull things out that you haven't explored within yourself and then do it on stage in front of everyone. Um, but I had—I actually had loads of different names. I was really—I—you know I was like oh cause you—you often say you know pull something out of your past, right? You know, something about your heritage or—and obviously being British. I was like, "Oh, you know, maybe I should do like a 007." And I was like, "Oh, it was like instead of James Bond, like James Bonk, and it was like 0-Heaven kind of vibe". And I was like, "Oh, I feel like I'm holding myself in a bit of a box in that one." I was like, "Oh, um, there's a—I thought about, you know, uh, Tom of Finland".
Danica Lani: Yes.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): Yeah. Uh, I was like, "I could be Tom of Finland." Um, so that—I was like, "Oh, that could be." And then—but Bear Back just kept coming back and I was like yes this is—I loved the rough and readiness of a cowboy but then this like sexually fluid—fluidity and like secret femininity that he would explore which is actually—actually now it's three years of doing drag. It's actually gone a lot more feminine and also since I've transitioned a lot more feminine as well, which is wild because before when I was presenting fem it was—I—I hated being too feminine like every now and then but not often. Whereas now I—I love to play with that more now. And it's—it's like I'm—there's like this weird like giving myself permission to—to to step into those different roles and and expressions.
Danica Lani: Yeah. That is beautiful. I mean that's liberation right there, isn't it? It's so liberating. Liberation through drag. Yeah. So, but it—it—it did spark your—a couple of journeys for you. One being the—the gender journey, which you know, share—share with us if you would about the gender journey that opened up for you after Kings of Joy.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): Yeah, I—I hadn't really, um, I think my circles were quite small. So, when I lived in—in the UK, I didn't have many gay or queer friends. If I did, it was actually gay—gay—gay men.
Danica Lani: Yes.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): Um, and I was always like, "Oh, I'm a gay man in a woman's body." That's—that was like the—the joke that I'd always say. Um, because I was quite—I don't know, a little bit like campy. Um, but I guess that's also the only thing I really knew. I—I didn't have many—I didn't really have lesbian friends or queer friends. Um, when I came to Australia um everyone I knew was—was—was straight mostly, um, apart from a few. Um, and then when I stepped into the King space it was this whole new world—like people from all different backgrounds and—and um different uh like queerness—like real authentic queerness. Um, and I—it really just—I was like, "Oh, there's so much more to discover". And then I think the—the—the real aha moment was—was binding. Um, I remember being on stage and my chest being bound and I felt free.
Danica Lani: Yes.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): Um, and it was—it was confronting in a way. And then I—suddenly that—that's when things started to—to really like—okay something—something's different. And I now look back through my life and actually there was a lot of telltale signs that I just didn't—I didn't know what that meant. Um, like I always found that I—I felt really masculine as a kid and I—and I had a blood transfusion when I was a baby. I almost died. Um, thanks mom for noticing I was turning blue.
Danica Lani: Right.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): And I always used to say like, "Oh, the person that gave—that I got the blood from must have been a man because I feel very masculine". Um, and I said that to my partner, um, you know, a while ago and she was like, "Wow, that was probably a moment, but you—the awareness wasn't there". Um, and then there's, you know, just in things that I used to feel comfortable in wearing and how I used to like express myself. Um, and I was always kind of more masculine in most ways and—and felt very strong and, um, yeah, and so a lot of things started to—to kind of open up in my—in my mind. Um, and then that's when I started to, um, just in small groups, you know, um, say, "Oh, could I try different pronouns?" And, you know, then I started like thinking, oh, maybe I'd like to play with names. Um, and you know, my family were great about it. Like most—most friends were—were pretty good. Um, but always the King space was just—it was like, "Yeah, cool. Amazing. Great." And like, "Let's go".
Danica Lani: Yes. And like it was—it's never—it's never a—a big deal, you know? It's like, "Yeah, amazing. Let's celebrate that".
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): Um, and that has been consistently my journey. You know, now, you know, I had top surgery. Um, I'm on testosterone. Um, you know, my voice is much lower than it used to be. Um, and everyone's just like you—"Oh my gosh, look, you're amaze—" you know, "you're so beautiful. You're so handsome" and it's so—like you just—your biggest cheerleaders, right? And it's your safe space.
Danica Lani: Absolutely. Absolutely. I remember we did a—uh, version of one of the routines called "Bye Bye-Bye Bye." And this routine was a routine that I'd created with and for my spouse Chris when they did their top surgery fundraiser.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): Yes.
Danica Lani: Um, so it was a very special, meaningful um rendition of a boy band—you know, total boy band genre and sync, um, "Bye Bye Bye," but it was a story and narrative about saying goodbye to the boobies. And, uh, um, and it—it's an—an epic spectacular routine, you know, and then we continued doing that routine for a while. And then we had a trans-mask version of it where we invited a—the trans-mask, you know, and non-binary people in Kings of Joy to perform it at a Drag Kingdom. Uh, what was that like for you?
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): I had always wanted to be in that. I'd seen it and I was like, "Oh, I just hope one day I make it to be in that." And then I—and then you invited me and I was like, "Oh, yes." I was so excited and it was so—yeah, it felt amazing cause I was, you know, in this body that I—that I—I loved and I got to show it off and be part of that—like and it meant—actually meant something—like the—the—the words—like the bye-bye part, you know, and you know the—the, um, the balloons with the—the breaking the balloons and the water coming out as if like it's, you know, your—breast and breasts and it was. Yeah, it it is liberating—like it's—and it was like this celebration as well, you know, like we don't—I feel like as trans masks, um, we—it—it—we really celebrate that we are trans. I feel like it's this—um, we're kind of proud of that journey. Like I had the option of—of having, uh, a revision on my—on my chest which meant that they would take away the scars. Um, and I decided not to because I was like, I love my scars, right? And I love that—like, you know, on stage when I rip my shirt off, like, which I always consistently do because I'm very proud of this chest that I paid a lot of money for. Um, it's expensive. Um, so I'm like, "Yes, show off the scars." Like, and it's—and then, you know, to do that on stage with other trans masks. It was just—it's that beautiful moment and when you're with your people—like, yeah, it was so good. I honestly—thank you so much for inviting me to that. I was so happy.
Danica Lani: What a joy that was to see so many expensive chests lined up together.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): It's a lot—lot of money on that stage.
Danica Lani: That was like one hell of a—hell of a show. Yeah. So good. Amazing. And so, um, what else has opened up for you, you know, in doing—I know you also did—um, have done like duos with your partner which has been amazing.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): That was so good. So, um, yeah, we were both cowboys and that—I—when, um, I realized, uh, that that Danny was a—a cowboy in drag, I was like, "Oh, no. Oh, we can't have two cowboys in one group. Like, maybe I should change it".
Danica Lani: Yeah.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): Which I'm now really glad I didn't because it was—it was the—you know, it was a real like Brokeback Mountain kind of, you know, it really was. It just as it kind of, you know, transcended. Um, and—and that's—and we actually became Bare Mountain. Um, that was our duo and, um, I feel like it went down very well with the queer community.
Danica Lani: We loved it. Oh my god, super fans.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): So good. So yeah, we, um, uh, after performing our group, um, we were able to—we got, um, asked by the bear community, um, which was interesting because we were like, "Oh, okay. Bears asking," you know, "queer fem folk," cause I was still presenting as fem at that point, um, "to be drag kings at their—" it was—and it was great and they loved it. They loved it. And I remember this one bear coming up to me afterwards and was like, "I know so many boys like you," like because of my character. And he was just like, "Yes, you remind me of many—many men that I have met." And I was like, "Ah, I feel like this is maybe a compliment. I don't know".
Danica Lani: Absolutely.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): Um, but it was so much fun. And, um, we—we got asked to do a 30th birthday. Um, which was really cool. Um, yeah, we—we did—we've done—we've done a few. Um, unfortunately my partner, um, um, does have, um, a chronic health condition. So, um, she's had to take a bit of a backseat, um, on the—on the performing. Um, but literally my biggest—like—cheerleader comes to every show and is—like you can—if—if—if you ever, um, watch, um, a recording of—of any performance I'm in. She's the banshee screaming every time you can hear her. Oh yeah, there she is.
Danica Lani: Love her. She's an absolute legend. Absolute angel. And, um, I know and like—she—I know that you know she—we—we went—we came to see, um, your partner Chris, um, uh, uh, do comedy last night with, um, a bunch of new comedians and it was amazing. By the way, if anyone gets a chance to see Chris doing comedy, please do. Um, they are incredible. Like as my mom said, "Oh, this is their—this—this is—this is what they're meant to be doing, you know? This is—this is their calling".
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): And it was so beautiful. I was like, "Go on, mom".
Danica Lani: That's so beautiful. Yeah. Look up the trans comed—comedian.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): Yes. Um, um, but Danny was, you know, uh, saying that, um—oh gosh, I completely lost what I was saying. So she was—um—oh that was it. So we—there was a lot of Kings there and she was saying like oh it's so amazing that you know whenever we go to anywhere where there's Kings, you—she instantly feels like safe and comfortable and welcome and it's so—and that's—and that is, you know, Kings of Joy 100%. But, um, I know that she's keen to get back into—into drag as well. I think going back to shows and stuff, seeing it. So there might be Bare Mountain on the horizon coming back.
Danica Lani: Yes. Stay tuned. Stay tuned.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): I am so tuned to that. I can't wait.
Danica Lani: Amazing. So good. And so, um, you know there's some aspiring drag kings who are listening today. And what would you say to an aspiring drag king?
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): Do it. Just do it. To quote Nike, just do it. Like honestly, oh my goodness, it has changed—it's changed my life. Um, and I think—in so—in so many ways as well because I think the world is really hard. It's—it's—it's—it's a hard world right now. Um, it's scary. It's lonely. Um, I think it's really hard for people to find meaning, connection, community, and honestly being a drag king gives you that. Like, it really does. And I think we have—like you have created this space where people—people have their people and it's so beautiful to watch and when everyone comes together. So you're not just getting on stage and dressing up and performing—like that's amazing. Yes. Like 100 even just if it's that it would be great but it's actually everything else. It's the support. It's the community. It's the love. It's the unconditional—like if someone needs something. All the—the kings are there. The kings have your back. Like it's—it's amazing. It's great. And so if you are just—if you've got the itch or if you just want to even try it—like dip your toe in try it. Just go on, jump in. Yeah, it's so—like I—I—it changed my life and I wouldn't be the person I am today. I genuinely believe that as well. I don't—I think my life would look very, very different if I hadn't have joined, um, Kings of Joy. Yes. Um, and I think that that—that—that makes me really sad because—like but also really happy—like you know happy—happy—an emotional moment.
Danica Lani: Yes.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): I'm like, oh my god. Like sad—sad to think of that it could have gone very differently but actually now like oh my goodness—like the person I am, the things that I'm doing, how I present, um, relationships I have, friends I have, um, you know I'd—I'd be living a very different lonely life so yeah very—I'm eternally grateful for you my darling.
Danica Lani: You have blossomed so much and it's been such a joy to witness you, um, you know, on that journey and yeah. And then recently you came to me and was like, "I want to get back connected to community. I want to contribute." And you are now a Kings of Joy producer. I am part of the Kings of Joy producer team, like making some really cool things happen. So what's that been like?
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): It's so good. I—I feel like, um, I'm—I'm neurodivergent and my—I love to organize things. So it's—it's so good to—like take that and have an outlet for it. Um, but yeah, no, it's awesome. Like we've made some really cool things—like obviously we've got Bois Night Out. Um, which is a monthly Drag King show. And it's hot, it's sexy, it's fun, it's so good. Um, it's outrageous.
Danica Lani: Yeah, it is. Just you've got to be there to see it.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): Um, I actually had, uh, a friend call me up yesterday and they were like, "Oh, I haven't seen Bois Night Out yet." And is there another one? Like, can I—can I come? And I was like, yes, 100%. December 19th, be there.
Danica Lani: Yes. The Factory Theater.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): That's it. Factory Theater. Um, yeah. I—It's—it's great. Like, to be able to give back as well and to be part of that, um, building community and connection is is amazing because I—like I've—I've experienced it myself. Now I'm—I get to be part of—part of that for other people.
Danica Lani: Yes. Um, yeah. That's so rewarding, isn't it? Like giving back from something that's, you know, you've grown so much within and then being able to give back to the community is just—it's the best. Amazing. Well, thank you for your contribution because you—yeah, you've really been a massive contribution in all the events that we've been putting on. I couldn't do it without you all. So, yeah, I really appreciate you.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): Oh, we appreciate you.
Danica Lani: Yeah. And you know, like I—like I said, I'm passionate about, like, exploring gender and through performance and—and um—but really for me it's about the liberation and the self-expression, people getting unleashed and being empowered in that. And so, um, as the King Coach, you know, people often ask me where do I start? How should I get started? So I do have a resource, a free resource people can download which is about creating your drag king name. Yes. So, claim your drag king name in four simple steps. Um, and you can download that at danicalani.com/dragkingname. And, uh, it'll take you through as well the different archetypes that I've distinguished for your drag king persona.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): Nice.
Danica Lani: Um, and you know, as a cowboy, I would say you fit into the outlaw persona—like that kind of outlaw or, you know, um, rebel—kind of persona. Would that fit for you?
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): Yeah.
Danica Lani: As an archetype.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): Yeah. I love that. Yeah. Although—although I feel like, um, Bear Back is—I feel like Beck started in the outlaw and now—things to come—uh, I feel like it's turning a little bit more Magic Mike. There's a lot—there's a lot of stripping—h—stripping happening. So the cowboy boots are always on, you know.
Danica Lani: Well, they're a bit off.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): Yeah. Oh my god. Yeah. I don't—you—like that's why you make rip-able pants. You don't make rip-able boots. Boots stay on.
Danica Lani: You can keep your boots on. It's a look. It's a look.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): If you—if—okay, so—if you could have a new drag king name, what would it be?
Danica Lani: Oh my goodness. A new one. I mean, it took me six years to find this one, you know, that was like one that I really resonate with—Dario—Dario the beautiful, you know. Um, I don't know that I would change my name again, but, um, it is important to have a name that you really resonate with, you know. Um, my name's not that funny, you know. I'm not—I—I wasn't born a funny person really. Like, I've married a stand-up comedian, and I've had partners in the past who really funny as well, and they've trained me in being funny a bit more. So, you know, I've been blessed to be able to become a little bit funnier. But, yeah, I noticed that my name is pretty serious. It's like Dario Diello—like and he's the archetype of the lover, you know, and he's, you know, always got new crushes and he's like confused between his head and his heart—like which is which and you know.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): Is that what we're calling it now? The heart?
Danica Lani: The heart.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): Yeah.
Danica Lani: Yeah. The crown—the crown jewels. Um, heart.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): Yeah.
Danica Lani: But yeah, I mean, that's the point is that it's so fun and you really truly could create a new drag king name today and create a persona around that—like write a backstory for him. You know, I've recently discovered that Dar has, um, six sisters all named after ex-girlfriends of mine. So, um, Francesca, Rita, Theresa, etc. There wasn't one called Etc., by the way.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): I love that.
Danica Lani: But it's like, okay, who are his sisters? He's got—it's like Joey in Friends. He's got all those sisters, right?
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): Yeah. Okay. What—what are their names?
Danica Lani: Oh, I know what their names are. Done.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): Yes. I—I remember, um, I—I do remember we—in when I did the group performance mostly, my first one, and we—we go through the process of creating our drag personas. Um, and we had to write a backstory. And I remember—I remember telling mine and it was—I'd really fleshed it out and you were like, "This is a movie." And I was like, "Yes, he—Bear Back could have a movie". Um, and it was—I remember it was like, um, he was in a biker gang and then, um, him and one of the other bikers. I think his name was like Angelo or something like that. They, um, had this like gay, um, romance and they—they were lovers, I remember. And they—I think like one of—I think Angelo gave, um, Bear Back the, uh, like a rune necklace or something and it was like you know to remember him and anyway they got found out by the gang and I think they killed Angelo and then they were coming after me. And so I ran to—uh, I think I was living in a trailer with my dad and I was like, "Dad, I've—got to—I've got to go." And he was just like, "Get out of here, son. Get out." And like—he was like, "But take these boots". And so the boots that I wear and the reason why I never take them off is because they're the only thing I have left of my dad after I had to run for my life. And that's why I'm on the open road like town to town, you know, men, women, everyone in between. Um, you know, I'm all for—and—and that's actually then how my story connected with, uh, Daddy Mac. Yes. Cause Daddy Mac had opened up a saloon.
Danica Lani: That's right.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): And I was go—I was driving down the road and I see this saloon and it's kind of—you know it's kind of half built kind of thing and I'm good with my hands. Uh, so I then build this—you know—that—yes, um, so you—um—I—yeah I helped build this—uh—this—this saloon and then—um—and then I then ended up like living there. Yeah. I think then, uh, Daddy Mac and—and Bear Back become—become a thing.
Danica Lani: Yes, that's right. That's right. It's all coming back to me. This is so good. Like these back stories that were written how many years ago now? Three or four?
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): Three years. Yeah.
Danica Lani: Oh my goodness. And it's like all coming back like it was just yesterday. And truly, what a movie that would be.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): Honestly, maybe that's the next project.
Danica Lani: There you go.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): A movie. A drag king movie. Maybe that's it.
Danica Lani: Yes. Well, I was going to ask you, what do you think a thriving drag king community or scene would look like? And maybe this is part of it.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): Maybe it's a drag king movie.
Danica Lani: Drag movie.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): I mean—well—and—and that actually does lead into I guess what I—yeah, I think just more visibility. Like I think we—we're still quite underground a little bit. And, you know, I think people—so many people don't know what a drag king is still. And I'm like, "What?" And, you know, the amount of people I say I'm a drag king, and they're like, "A drag queen?" I'm like, "No, no, drag king". And—and look, and to be fair, I understand it's a bit confusing now because I present very mask. So they're like, "What"?
Danica Lani: Yeah.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): And I'm like, "Yeah, yep. I get it. I understand." The mask. Um, and—and actually that's a reason why I also love this community is because it—even though I present very masculine, it—I'm still part of the—the community and it's not—it's not weird that I do drag as a—like dressing up as a dude. Like it—yeah, it's all good. Like and I love that. Um, yeah, I think like booking more kings. I think, you know, we've got Bois Night Out so it's an all kings dedicated show which is so beautiful to see—like the space is just for that and, you know, I think as that builds and builds hopefully more people will learn what kings are, hire kings. You know, corporates come on do your bit—hire a king. Um, yeah, and then—and then more visibility on the screen—why not? You know, it's—we—you just don't really hear it—you don't hear drag kings being spoken about. Um, and that's—we're just—I think we're getting there. We're getting close, but it's just consistency. Like, keep pushing, keep going. Um, you know, don't—just don't stop. And that's why more people need to join, more people need to—to do it. Um, we have stages for you. Come, we'll give you—we'll give you a space. Um, yeah, just more—more. We just need to get in more shows.
Danica Lani: Yeah. Love it. Yeah. I mean, it's so true. The only guaranteed way to fail at something is to stop.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): Yeah. Wonder.
Danica Lani: And we're not stopping, right? So, we're going to keep this momentum going and continue to build a community and a culture that uplifts people as well. You know, it's about joy. You know, anti-racism, non-toxic masculinity, positive masculinity, you know, gender diversity, celebrating that. So yeah, they're the foundations. So thank you so much for creating and—and contributing to—to this culture that we're, you know, in community that we're building together.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): Of course, it's—I mean I feel like it's—um—it's—all—all—everything that is—that Kings of Joy is about is—is very much aligned with my own values. So it's—it's easy. You don't have to think about it. It just is. Um, and it's—it's a—it's—it's nice because it's like a—a break from the—the world, you know? It's like, oh, this—this is what it should be like.
Danica Lani: Yes. I think we could teach a lot of people, right?
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And inspire.
Danica Lani: Yes. Inspire. Breathe life into—bring the joy. This is it.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): Kings of Joy.
Danica Lani: That's what this—does what it says on the tin.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): It does.
Danica Lani: Excellent. Uh, thank you so much, Charlie—Bear Back for coming in. And, um, we will grab your hat.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): Yes. Oh yeah. Yep. I had to take the hat off because it was—you know I couldn't—my neck was going to be stiff and.
Danica Lani: Yeah. No, let's see it on.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): We—we don't like stiff things but just not stiff.
Danica Lani: Full look.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): Talking about the boots. Of course.
Danica Lani: Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Of course.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): There we go.
Danica Lani: Look at you. Amazing.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): Although I've got the legs out today—like airs and shorts. It's hot. Okay.
Danica Lani: Look, we're in Australia. What can we say?
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): This is it, right? I'm not going to—I'd leave a wet mark on the chair otherwise.
Danica Lani: Exactly. Excellent. Well, thanks for keeping the seat hot for the next guest.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): Yeah. All right. And we'll see you around the—the saloon.
Danica Lani: The saloon.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): Let's get—let's just—well, look, save a horse, ride a Bear Back. Um, thank you so much for having me. Thank you for just being such a joy to work with, um, be friends with—like, you're just such a beautiful person and I—I honestly am eternally grateful for you being part of my life and the journey that I've been on. I'm—I'm honestly so proud to have you in my life. So, thank you.
Danica Lani: I feel the same. Thank you, Charlie. Love you.
Charlie Oxford (aka Bear Back): Thanks.
Sources:
* Charlie full ep YOUTUBE.m4v
