The Kings of Joy Show — Episode 4 (Season 2) Guest: Danielle Cormack aka PonyBoi
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Danica: Ever looked in the mirror and thought, "I'd make a damn fine Drag King"? Welcome to Kings of Joy, the Drag King podcast where gender isn't something to fear, it's something to play with. I'm Danica Lani, The King Coach, mentor to over 150 first-time Drag Kings, and I'm taking you backstage into the unruly, magical world of Drag King transformation. If you're craving confidence, community, and a crew that gets it, you just found your crown. Connect with us on Instagram @kings.of.joy for behind-the-scenes content and updates. We'd love to hear from you.
At Kings of Joy, we acknowledge and pay our respects to the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation, the traditional custodians of the land on which we live, work, and play.
Danielle: I wanted to meet some new people and I wanted to explore different aspects of my performance. And also, I think around that time, as a cis female, I was going through menopause and all that and it was like, "Okay, it's time to fuck shit up here." I felt like I was getting a bit linear in my journey and it was like, "Yeah, I've got all these other aspects to my character and personality that I still want to explore more." And one of them was being a naughty teenage boy.
Danica: In this episode, I had the privilege of speaking with Danielle Cormack, aka PonyBoi. Danielle is a multi-award-winning actor, director, and producer whose career spans over 35 years in film, television, and theatre across Australia and New Zealand. She is best known for playing the iconic role of Bea Smith in the critically acclaimed drama Wentworth, as well as the leading role of Kate Leigh in the highly successful TV series Underbelly: Razor, for which she won awards and nominations for both roles.
Danielle is a mother to two sons and is a long-running ambassador for Shine for Kids Australia and ChildFund Australia and New Zealand, which has seen her travel to work in communities to support children and refugees living in extreme poverty and crisis zones.
Welcome Danielle, aka PonyBoi.
Danielle: Thanks so much for being here.
Danica: It's so great to be here.
Danielle: And can I just say, I'm marvelling at your get-up here. It's amazing.
Danica: I feel like we've stepped into our palace.
Danielle: Yes, I feel like that too.
Danica: A little bit.
Danielle: It's nice. Sit up a bit in your crown. And on that note as well, congratulations for 150 Kings.
Danica: That has been a milestone — five years in the making, coaching and mentoring 150 first-time Kings. I feel proud. I don't feel like there's anyone else in the world who could say that, necessarily, that I've met. But it's a big accomplishment.
Danielle: I'd like to say that I am one of those 150.
Danica: Yes, you are. You've got a number — I don't know what number it is — but you are definitely a number of the Kings of Joy, which has been fabulous. So tell me, let's start with your origin story. Why did you want to become a Drag King?
Danielle: Well, I think it all began — it sort of goes right back to my history in performance and being an actor primarily. But we can talk about that later. I'll start with scanning you on social media and thinking, "Who is that person? They're amazing. Who is she? Who is he?" And then I think for me, the idea of being a King, stepping into the Drag King performance world, was on par with my own performance aspirations anyway. So I reached out to you, and I think there was a Kings of Joy course being run, and I just went straight in there off the diving board with a triple flip.
Danica: Yes, you did. Absolutely. You brought a friend along with you too, didn't you? A buddy.
Danielle: I did bring a friend of mine along because we were doing a play at the time at Belvoir, and Maude Davey, who is a King herself in Melbourne, wanted to come along with me. So we were able to come along and be Kings with the Kings of Joy together. It was so much fun and completely distracting for us because we were doing this play together, a lesbian divorce comedy. While we were supposed to be running lines and everything, we were practising our routines behind the stage, which was most fun.
That's how I crashed into the Kings of Joy world. But primarily for me, finding the community came very easily. When I was younger, I was always performing and I felt like I had so many annexes to my personality. Even with finding PonyBoi, it was easy for me because I think I identify more as a naughty teenage boy than I do anything else.
I matured very late in life — I'm still maturing. Part of it was discovering that side of me that I related to so much when I was growing up and taking that aspect of myself and putting that character into a safe performance space.
Danica: That is one of the intentions of Kings of Joy: starting out as first-time Drag Kings regardless of performance background. Some people have never danced or picked up a makeup brush, and being in a crew where everybody is a first-time Drag King is a special experience.
Danielle: For me, it's interesting because, having worked in the performance space for many years, the most exciting time for me is when I'm working with people that haven't performed before. It's such a joy to see people take that step. It raises the cortisol levels, but when you witness the joy once they're in their flow, and those moments afterwards when they're filled with chemicals like dopamine, those are the really pure moments. I love that.
There is a particular fancy in working with people that haven't ever performed, and I got that especially with that first performance I did with the Kings of Joy. Of course, it is about community and coming together. For me at that time, I wanted to plug into different communities. I'd gone through an isolated time and wanted to meet new people and explore different aspects of my performance.
As a cis female going through menopause, it was like, "Okay, it's time to fuck shit up here." I felt like I was getting a bit linear in my journey and I still wanted to explore more, and one of those things was being a naughty teenage boy.
Danica: And welcome, PonyBoi. I love what you're saying about tapping into community because, moving from a city like Melbourne to Sydney, I didn't know anyone and started out very isolated. My partner suggested I create the community that I wanted — an uplifting community around joy that supports each other. That's why we started Kings of Joy. I'm glad that helped fulfil that for you as well, having a community to go on social events with or help move house or bring soup when someone's sick.
Danielle: My phone pings quite a lot with the Kings of Joy group chat. I found it really attractive that there was a great warmth. You are incredibly open and welcoming to the community. In all different sectors, there can become a strange kind of hierarchy sometimes, so to be welcomed into a space where knowledge is shared without being condescending or patronising was something I really enjoyed and kept me coming back.
Danica: People go on a bit of a gender journey, exploring gender in a safe space, and that led you to PonyBoi. Can you tell us a little bit about him?
Danielle: As you guided us through that journey, I realised I didn't have to land on something immediately. Through the rehearsal space and thinking about costume and character — and I'm very detailed with character — I had to sit with myself and think about my own masculinity and femininity and allowing all binary language to slip away.
I found it easier to think about my own industry. PonyBoi was a wannabe actor who was desperate to make it in Hollywood but had way more confidence than I ever had. He was gunning for it, intent on being a stunt double, thinking that was his way to becoming a lead actor — the "cunning stunt man" full of drive and ambition.
In our first performance at the Red Rattler, I realised I didn't have a voice for him, and suddenly this voice came out — his balls clearly hadn't dropped yet. He was born there on the spot. It's an ongoing, evolving journey. I've discovered more about him through different performances.
I'm nearly 55 and there's a societal judgement that I have to behave a certain way at this age, and I'm not. So I get to live this out through PonyBoi.
Danica: It's wonderful seeing PonyBoi as a persona from within, which is how I coach Kings — it's a larger-than-life version of you where you get to explore your own masculinity.
Danielle: Growing up as a teenager in Auckland, New Zealand, I was obsessed with movies that featured the journey of teenage boys — like The Outsiders. PonyBoi was born from those iconic characters. PonyBoi says, "Stay gold." I love that t-shirt. I've just come straight from the gym because I wanted to get some PonyBoi guns out.
Danica: What's his journey been since Kings of Joy?
Danielle: PonyBoi is getting closer to his dream of becoming a Hollywood star. He's jumped on a few international flights and performed at conventions in the States and here on Gadigal land at the Vanguard. I love every moment of being on stage. I had a bit of personal burnout and needed to retreat for a while, but Pony's been peeping out of his smelly bedroom going, "Time to come out again."
Danica: When we're speaking about our Drag persona and ourselves, how does that work? For me, I speak of Danica and then Dario di Bello. Dario's got a new crush, or Dario is confused between his head or his heart.
Danielle: If it was Pony, it would be the head or the — [points down below]
Danica: I was rehearsing a new routine called "Head and Heart" in the car with my nine-year-old daughter. I was practising the lip-syncing, and PonyBoi points down below to the "crown jewels" or his heart. My daughter looks at me and says, "Danica, you've been pointing to your head and then your leg, like it's your head and your heart." She fully corrected me.
Danielle: I was doing a performance at the Vanguard and got all dressed up beforehand, but my son came home from school with his mate and his mate's dad. I was running out into the street as PonyBoi and I'd never met this dad before. My son goes, "Yeah, this is my mum." I think I stayed in character. Pony was there: "G'day, it's nice to meet you. Bit of a man. Got a gig."
Danica: PonyBoi's got a distinctive look — how would you describe it?
Danielle: PonyBoi has the beautiful blue glitter beard — that's a trademark — a good strong brow, and he has to wear a cap backwards because his hair is very short. He likes a lot of eye makeup too, a strong eye with bright green eyeshadow at times. He has managed to reduce the travel kit to a manageable size.
Pony likes to get his chest out with tape over the nips. He loves a see-through tank top, like mesh netting. I really enjoyed the makeup side of it, going to Kryolan and having a magical time with a shop assistant going through all the colours.
Pony's performances are very energetic and rambunctious, so I need to make sure the makeup is set and doesn't melt off from perspiration.
Danica: What are some of the songs you've done as Pony?
Danielle: Pony's last set was "Tainted Love," "Super Freak" by Rick James, and "Add It Up" by Violent Femmes. I've never been interviewed about Pony before. It's interesting to navigate the me/we.
Danica: You have such an incredible professional career as an actor. How does that compare to doing PonyBoi and Drag?
Danielle: I was in a TV show called Wentworth, a reimagining of Prisoner. It has a huge fanbase in the States and they do conventions where Pony has performed and had lots of photo ops — he loves the camera. He's hosted sexy bingo and judged costume competitions. It's been fun for him to get out there and host, which has helped find his moral compass, humour, and how he feels about engaging with other humans as opposed to just performing to them.
I see it as a complement to what I do — performance is a chance to exercise the beasts within. It's always about coming together with communities and jamming in synergy with each other's silliness and play. To me, that's what performance is — it's playtime. I want to keep employing that sense of play every day for the rest of my life.
Danica: What would you say to an aspiring Drag King who's wanted to be one forever?
Danielle: It's very simple: do it. Tap into the community and see how it rolls out — no time like now. Don't sweat the small stuff. Just do it.
Danica: I've put together a free guide for creating and claiming your Drag King name, whether you want it to be funny or punny. It also explores archetypes, like Dario di Bello being the archetype of the lover. That's a good place to start.
Danielle: I remember that was part of the package when we started. Because I'm a little bit PonyBoi, I say "package" and start thinking of packages — sorry, stay on track. You don't need to know everything before you arrive. I'm so glad I turned up, and even though Maude Davey came with me, I would have felt completely comfortable coming alone.
Danica: What would a thriving Drag King scene look like in your vision?
Danielle: I recently saw a callout for Drag Queens for a feature film, and I put my name forward as a Drag King. They said they didn't have any roles for Kings at the moment, but you can't have a Queen without a King! There seems to be a thriving Drag Queen scene — Drag Queen bingo and lots of performance spaces — and I would love for clubs to embrace Kings as much.
I would love to create a Drag King film, or a Drag race for only Drag Kings.
Danica: Murray Hill just hosted "King of Drag," which has been amazing for our community.
Danielle: For sure, and there's room for more. It's about having the conversation so people are more savvy as to what it's about and making it accessible. And, of course, a Drag King musical — every musical ever made, but only done by Drag Kings. Cats, Drag King version.
Danica: Thank you so much for being on The Kings of Joy Show.
Danielle: Thank you, my King Daddy.
Danica: Thank you for being a King of Joy and bringing that joy to people all around the world. I really appreciate you, Danielle. Thanks for being here today.
Welcome to the kingdom, pull up a chair with Kings of Joy stories. We go there from debut through the journey we're making. This is Kings of Joy.
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