From George Michael to Gender Euphoria: A Trans Comedian's Drag King Story
Danica: In this episode, I had the privilege of speaking to my very own spouse, Chris McAllister, aka Chase Cocks. Chris is a dynamic force in Sydney's queer performance scene and online as the trans comedian. As a stand-up comedian, Chris has toured regional Australia, as well as appearing in Sydney Fringe and comedy festivals, and now mentoring first-time queer and trans stand-up comedians for their show Trans Christian Anderson and Friends. Chris is the founder, co-producer, and host of Queers of Joy, a variety entertainment event that has become a vital platform for trans and gender-diverse artists since its inception in December 2020.
Welcome Chris. Welcome to The Kings of Joy Show.
Chris aka Chase Cocks: Thanks for having me. Thanks, Judy.
Danica: Yeah, it's a delight to be able to interview you as my spouse. Let's start there. Yeah. What's it like being married to me?
Chris aka Chase Cocks: An absolute delight. I've never been married to anyone else. I've got nothing else to compare it to. But I love being married to you. I love being married. I wish I saw you a little bit more. We're both very busy.
Danica: Very busy. Yeah, yeah. Well, would you like to share with us how your Drag King journey started? Because that's an interesting story.
Chris aka Chase Cocks: Well, it was how we met, wasn't it? So I had recently done a stand-up comedy performance at a show, and someone else who was doing that same variety night needed some backup dancers for a concept Drag performance that they had an idea for, which was a parody of Neil Diamond's "September Morn." It was "Seventies Porn," and I was in.
I'd had a breakup about three months earlier and I was saying yes to everything. And so I was just like, "Yeah, I'll do that." And had never really considered being a Drag King before, but I just wanted to make some new friends and stuff. So I did that. And that's when I met you at the first rehearsal.
Danica: We did meet at the first rehearsal, and the Drag King's name was That Guy Steve.
Chris aka Chase Cocks: Yes. So shout out to That Guy Steve for introducing us. Absolutely.
Danica: We are forever indebted to That Guy Steve for bringing us together. I remember That Guy Steve. We'd been dancers together in Mardi Gras, and so that's how I knew That Guy Steve. And so Steve called me and said, "Would you be able to choreograph this group number that I want to do?"
And, you know, I'd been in Sydney for a number of years so far, but hadn't really found my place.
Chris aka Chase Cocks: Yeah, and I didn't know that you were the choreographer. I just thought that you were — did you not? I thought you were just one of the other people backup dancing. And then you started, like, "Well, how about we do this, and how about we do that?" And I was like, "Oh, she's really getting involved. It's good to have her here."
Danica: When did it click that I was actually the choreographer? Did it ever click?
Chris aka Chase Cocks: Probably when you told the story of how we met. I was like, "Oh, you were the choreographer. Oh, great."
Danica: Except that I do remember we had the first rehearsal, then at the second rehearsal — that was the rehearsal where you did the Patrick Swayze slide on your knees across the floor. That was the moment for me where I was a complete goner. And then you gave me a gift. And one of my love languages is receiving gifts. And it was a prop for the performance. I was playing a guy from The Book of Mormon. "Hello." And so I was knocking on the door.
Chris aka Chase Cocks: Yeah, I found you a book at Salvos, like a prayer book or something.
Danica: Yeah, and you wrote an inscription. Do you remember what you wrote?
Chris aka Chase Cocks: "This is hopefully the first gift of many." Yes, something like that.
Danica: Very charming, I know.
Chris aka Chase Cocks: Very charming. Very, very charming.
Danica: Okay, and then the slide. But then what happened after that? Well, I said to you — you must have known I was the choreographer.
Chris aka Chase Cocks: Well, I said being choreographed by you is better than a threesome. And the reason I compared it to that was because I'd had one before the rehearsal.
Danica: I mean, you'd had a busy schedule.
Chris aka Chase Cocks: Yeah, I told you I had recently had a breakup, so I was saying yes to everything.
Danica: So good. Well, that was a very big compliment.
Chris aka Chase Cocks: Yeah, big compliment. Well, I hope so.
Danica: And then after that rehearsal, I remember going costume shopping with Steve, and I found this boiler suit. And I thought, "Oh, well, Chris was playing a mechanic." What was your name? Dirty Barry, or something?
Chris aka Chase Cocks: Dirty Barry. Dirty Barry.
Danica: That was your first Drag King name. And I found this boiler suit, and I thought, "I don't know. It's pretty whatever. I have no idea if this is the right costume or not, but I need an excuse to text Chris. I need to text them." So I took a photo of this boiler suit, and I sent you a text message and said, "Oh, do you need a boiler suit?"
Chris aka Chase Cocks: And I said I was probably hoping to wear less clothes than that. Because it really covered every inch of your body. It's true. And then I think you responded, yeah, you said something like, "Yeah, I was thinking that too." And I thought, "Oh, she's flirting with me."
Danica: Yes, yeah, yeah. These things sneak up on you. I think you know when you're flirting with someone. And do you realise you're flirting with someone from the very beginning? And at some point you're like, "Yes, I'm definitely —" You admit it to yourself. You admit to yourself, yes. So we continued our text messaging that whole night, I believe.
Chris aka Chase Cocks: Yeah, yeah. Very exciting. Very. And then we planned our first date, which was after the next rehearsal.
Danica: So in true lesbian style, we started dating after the second rehearsal.
Chris aka Chase Cocks: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. The rest is history.
Danica: Well, is it? That's the power of being a Drag King.
Chris aka Chase Cocks: Yeah. Well, it is. You meet your —
Danica: Do you know what? Some of the first Drag Kings that came through Kings of Joy — that started to happen. Romances, lover ships, committed relationships — all arose out of Kings meeting each other through Kings of Joy, such that one participant said, "Danica, I think this is your secret dating agency," and dubbed Kings of Joy as Danica's Secret Dating Agency. I was happy with that. It's like, that's a great outcome.
Chris aka Chase Cocks: Yeah, yeah. And I guess if you want to meet your person, then do something you love, right?
Danica: That's beautiful.
Chris aka Chase Cocks: I didn't make that up. I've heard that. I can't take credit for that genius.
Danica: Yeah. And so we've been together now, what? Seven and a half years?
Chris aka Chase Cocks: Yes.
Danica: And we got married.
Chris aka Chase Cocks: Yeah, we did. We got married in February 2020.
Danica: February 2020, right before the pandemic hit Australia or the lockdowns. Yeah. And yeah, after we got married, you went on a gender journey. Would you like to share with us about that?
Chris aka Chase Cocks: Well, I'd been doing another performance that you had put together, and it was the George Michael one. We did that George Michael medley.
Danica: Oh yes, that's right. I had a previous dance group called Show Ponies, Exploring the Diva. And we did pop tributes to pop icons. And we did a George Michael tribute.
Chris aka Chase Cocks: And there was a dance to all these different George Michael songs. Yeah. For the performance, I had a kind of beard, five o'clock shadow thing. And I was dressed all in black, and, I don't know, whatever. And yeah, did this performance. And I remember our gay friend Brad, after the performance, was like, "Oh, Chris looks so hot."
And that had never happened to me before, having a gay man look at me like that. It was so weird. And anyway, I got home that night — well, we both got home — and I was in the bathroom, had the light off, and I just walked past the mirror and I just sort of caught a glimpse in the mirror. And for a moment I was like, "Who's that? Who's that handsome guy?"
And yeah, I don't know. Weird stuff happened in my brain. New neural pathways opened up or something. And something happened that night. It was kind of, yeah, a bit discombobulating.
And then I just started to — I looked at my boobs one night and I was like, "They look like someone else's boobs have just been stuck on my body. They look so weird." And I told you that, and yeah, you just totally got it and didn't freak out. Or, you know, you were always someone I could just say all this stuff to, which feels very private to say when you're first going through it, but you never kind of panicked or judged me or made me feel weird or like a freak. Completely safe space to talk about it.
And so I think probably going on this journey just wasn't available to me before meeting you. And yeah, so then, I guess Drag in a way, like being dressed as George Michael, sort of had that beginnings of — helped me sort of unlock those neural pathways. And then being with you and having someone to talk to about it completely safely allowed me to — gave me the space to explore it.
Danica: Yeah, yeah. And it's been a complete honour to witness you as you go through that gender journey and that exploration of coming into more and more of yourself. And that's how I've seen it, is that it's coming into alignment with Self — Self as a capital S — the true, authentic Self. And seeing you go through this journey has just been so empowering. I've seen you become more and more yourself, more and more empowered, more and more expressed in the world. And yeah, that's what it's been like from my side. Yeah. And you've become very, very handsome.
But I mean, I'm a lesbian. I identify as a lesbian. Well, I actually identify as a red-hot-blooded lesbian, but I identify as a lesbian, and I have for many, many years, as you know. And for me, what's attracted me is the masculine in AFAB bodies. And that's actually what's really attracted me. And I could see, even though you were someone that presented very androgynously when we first met, I could see that masculinity in you, and that's what made me weak at the knees.
Chris aka Chase Cocks: Yeah. Well, you were the first person to call me handsome, way before I'd even thought of anything. And yeah, I think for a lot of life, I've been a party animal. I've, you know, probably drank a little bit too much, but I've had fun in life, but just not really stopped to think, or stopped to consider who I am or anything.
And yeah, I think that being with you and just having that space to pause and reflect just allowed me to further become myself, rather than covering things up with substances or something like that.
Danica: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And now you're known as the trans comedian. And you have a career in stand-up comedy. And there's one of your jokes — I won't butcher it too much, I hope. I won't even try and tell it. But it's that moment where you talk about being trans and being English, and how, you know, being trans, you need to be self-reflective, a bit self-reflective, right? And that's what you're talking about, right? That opportunity to pause and stop. And actually, when we met, you'd stopped drinking as well. So you had this real opportunity to be clear and present and available to that kind of reflection that allowed for a gender journey, I think. Exploration.
Chris aka Chase Cocks: Yeah, I think there's a lot of things just all combined at the same time. And, you know, when we first met, I remember thinking, "I'm glad that we're meeting now." Even though I've spent the first 36, 37 years not knowing you, I'm glad it's now, because if you'd have met me a year ago, or like, you wouldn't have been interested in me. So, well, yeah, I mean, kind of divine timing. And it was the combination of everything happening at the same time that allowed for things to eventuate. So, you know, no regrets.
Danica: No regrets. And there's a lot of alignment there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah. So going on that gender journey. And part of that gender journey, you know, there were the changes that you wanted to make physically to be in a more gender-affirmed body, one of which was top surgery. And, you know, like many people on a gender journey who don't have a spare $10,000 lying around, you went to community to create your top surgery fundraiser. Do you want to tell us about that?
Chris aka Chase Cocks: Sure. So yeah, I'd seen other people put on events to raise money for gender-affirming surgery. So because you'd started the community of Kings of Joy, and with the show Queers of Joy, we'd met so many people, so many aspiring Drag Kings. And I had this idea. It was back in, I think it was 2022, to have a big Drag King extravaganza. And we must have had, I don't know, 20-odd Drag Kings perform that night in a show called Bye Bye Bye. And it was one of the best nights of my life.
Yeah, we had about 120 people in the audience. We had all these Drag Kings, some of them performing solos for the first time, people just wanting to contribute and help. And yeah, I hosted the night, and then with two friends, we performed at the end the song "Bye Bye Bye" by NSYNC. Yeah. First time that we performed that, and we've performed it many, many times ever since.
Danica: We have, because it's so stellar.
Chris aka Chase Cocks: Great routine. Spectacular. And I remember coming to you before and I said, "Oh, I've come up with this concept. I've choreographed a routine to 'Bye Bye Bye' by NSYNC." And by "I've choreographed," I meant I had a very, very loose conception about what it was going to be. It's like, "First I'll do a line, someone else will do a line, someone else will do a line, and then we'll do some kind of thing for the chorus. And then at the end, we're gonna get these water balloons full of water that are gonna look like boobs kind of thing, and then we're gonna pop them over our heads, and we're gonna be wearing white t-shirts and singlets. So it's gonna be like a boy band white wet t-shirt competition thing," which it was. So you actually did choreograph the actual moves, but —
Danica: Thank you very much. Thanks for that acknowledgement.
Chris aka Chase Cocks: Yeah, yeah. So best routine ever.
Danica: Yes. Yeah.
Chris aka Chase Cocks: And we ended up, I think, raising a good chunk. It was about five or six thousand.
Danica: It was six thousand.
Chris aka Chase Cocks: Yeah, yeah. And it was a brilliant night. It was, yeah.
Danica: And you got really acknowledged by people in the community. People said beautiful things to acknowledge you.
Chris aka Chase Cocks: Yeah, yeah. I don't really have big birthdays or celebrate my birthday much at all, so this was what I think it would feel like to have a really big birthday, even though there were heaps of people that I'd never met. They'd come to see their friend perform, but they were all just so beautiful. It was such a joyful night.
Danica: Yes. And I think it's that thing of being seen and being known, even by strangers, that you can be known in a community.
Chris aka Chase Cocks: Yeah, I hate walking into a room and nobody knows who I am.
[laughs]
I remember actually getting top surgery and I was in the hospital bed afterwards, but I was in this private room, and it was quite large, and the nurses kept coming in, going, "Oh, normally we save this room for people of repute or merit or whatever," you know, like something like that. Like, "Yeah, I wonder how you've got this room." Even the doctor came and said it to me, or the surgeon afterwards. And we literally had done the fundraiser like a week or two before, and I was just like, "We got a standing ovation." I'm like, they don't know that I'm someone in Marrickville. This was Hunters Hill. So obviously my fame had not stretched that far.
Danica: Not yet stretched that far. Speaking of fame stretching far, I mean your Instagram, The Trans Comedian, has become a place of demonstrating trans joy and vitality, lightness and levity and humour, as well as a place where trans people can feel acknowledged and safe in seeing how many allies actually exist in the world. Tell us a bit about your journey with your Instagram social media experiments.
Chris aka Chase Cocks: Well, I started posting a video every day on Instagram from last September or so, a year ago, just over a year ago, in the hopes of showing a trans person having fun, just being joyful and silly, and hopefully dispelling some myths and bridging the gaps. And just showing people — because you always see this narrative about trans people, that we're suffering and that we have issues and we can't thrive, and we're just a drag on society. And so I just wanted to not so much talk about those things, but actually just show a completely different narrative.
And so I just had this idea to post a joke a day, a trans-related joke. And then straight away, people were receptive of it and commenting and being supportive and enjoying what I was talking about. First of all, I was talking about, "Oh, now I get seen as a man, I get loads of praise for doing the most menial stuff." And it's not even a political statement. It's just — I was working in a retirement village, and that's what it was. And I was like, it was so surprising that people will give me all of this praise for cooking my wife dinner. Like, okay.
Anyway, so all the straight women on Instagram loved that. They just were like, "Yeah, the bar for men is so low. It's on the floor. It's in hell." So I got all of these new fans. And I just carried on doing these jokes every day.
And then Trump got inaugurated and stuff, and he got in. And obviously the first week, every single day, he was saying something about clamping down on trans people and stuff. And it just got really dark online. And I could tell that trans people were feeling very isolated and that no one was sticking up for them. And I was like, "My experience is there are a lot more allies than you think, or not even people that would call themselves allies, people who actually don't mind trans people. They just don't get involved, but they have nothing against trans people."
And so I wanted to show people — trans people — that actually there are more people who are supportive or in our corner, or who are not against us, than are. It's just that you only hear those voices.
And I'd noticed that sometimes I would get comments on my videos saying, "I can tell you're still a woman," but then I would get, "I can tell you're still a man," in the comment directly underneath. And I posted that one day, and just organically, spontaneously, people who had been following me for a while were like, "Well, I can tell that you're a lovely person," and "I can tell that you're doing good in the world," and "I can tell I really like following you," stuff like that.
So I had the idea to start a hashtag allyship campaign where you say hashtag "I can tell," and then you say something lovely instead of the usual. And so I posted that one night back in January, and it just straight away went kind of crazy. This video — 300 comments in the first hour. Next morning, there were 3,000 comments. Wow. And they were all really lovely comments. They all took the brief and ran with it. And I just didn't get any transphobic comments at all.
And trans people were commenting and connecting. And parents of trans kids were commenting and connecting, saying that they did think that they were alone, and they'd seen this comment section and realised they're not alone, and that they have hope now for their trans kid. And just many, many people that maybe didn't usually engage in this conversation just started to engage because it felt like a call to action that they could relate to. It was easy, it was accessible. It wasn't controversial in any way. It didn't come from hate or reaction. It just came from, "Hey, why don't we say something lovely about trans people?" And it turns out, people are very capable of saying something lovely.
Danica: Yeah, and giving them a chance.
Chris aka Chase Cocks: To this day, it's now had way over 100,000 comments and 4 million views. And it's connected me with people worldwide — countries like Pakistan and Belize and South Africa and all over Europe, all over America, Canada. Yeah, yeah. So it's been great. And now the "I can tell" person.
Danica: I mean, you have t-shirts.
Chris aka Chase Cocks: T-shirts, but it's about the power of reclaiming words. And so "I can tell" to some trans people — that feels like a stab. It feels like three words which cause dysphoria or trigger dysphoria or something. But "I can tell" to me doesn't mean that at all. It means allyship. It means community. It means love. It means connection. And that's the power of changing the narrative for yourself. And that's part of why I do comedy as well, because I can talk about things that maybe once had power over me, and they don't anymore, because it's my story and I get to say it how I want to say it.
Danica: Very powerful. Yeah. And so you took some of that trans comedy into a play that we did together called They Will Be Kings. So tell us a bit about that journey and being part of a theatre play.
Chris aka Chase Cocks: So that was Kaz Therese, who I had met and had performed at Queers of Joy as a solo performer, and then had done Kings of Joy. Yes. And then came to us with the idea of blending contemporary theatre with Drag and Drag Kings specifically. Yes. And the idea of masculinity and a female-born body. And so developing that show with you and them and Becks and Angel was a very new experience and a challenge to go a little bit deeper and more reflective, because I do often just use humour, and humour is my very first reaction to most things. So it was interesting to see where else we could take it, and what stories we wanted to tell, and how we wanted to expose people that didn't know anything about Drag Kings to — expose Drag Kings to that kind of audience. And the idea of masculinity and it not belonging to men, and it belonging to anybody. And yeah, it was great. I loved it.
Danica: So good. Yeah. And so, you know, the They Will Be Kings play — we're taking that to Mardi Gras again this year, in 2026, for two weeks. A lot of people missed out on seeing that show, so we're bringing it back and developing it. What are you looking forward to about that at Qtopia?
Chris aka Chase Cocks: I — the privilege of performing every night. Like I said the other night, because we did a show and then another show the next night, and I just was like, "How lucky are we? What a good life this is." And doing that show is a lot of fun. So high energy. It's really good. Some awesome solos in there, and the audience loved it. So what's better than applause?
Danica: A standing ovation?
Chris aka Chase Cocks: Yeah. Well, yeah, we do get a few.
Danica: Yeah, expect we'll get a few of them. So yeah, it's great.
Chris aka Chase Cocks: Yes. And to have a two-week run at Qtopia for Mardi Gras — that's great as well. That's not happened for Drag Kings before.
Danica: Yep, so good. And so a lot of different people have come to see that show, whether they're other theatre people, other Drag Kings who've really enjoyed hearing the backstories of other Drag Kings. But also people who are aspiring Drag Kings. What would you say to an aspiring Drag King who might be listening?
Chris aka Chase Cocks: I would say, for whatever reason you want to do it — whether it's gender, confidence, community, friendship, self-expression — they're all great reasons. And even if it's just because you want to try something new, or have a new hobby or anything, why not give it a go? Participation is the source of vitality.
Danica: As I often say.
Chris aka Chase Cocks: As he said to me.
Danica: That's right. When you participate, it gives you energy, actually.
Chris aka Chase Cocks: It does. And I remember you said that very early on in our relationship, and it's true. Yeah. I mean, obviously rest when you need a rest, but at the same time, being with people and connecting with people and doing something fun together, that's so enlivening, enriching. So it's like, if you're on a sports team or something, you're getting together with people to do something fun for the purpose of doing something fun. And that's what being a Drag King is.
Danica: Love it. And people often ask me, "Well, how do I start? Where do I start?" So I do have a free resource for people — for aspiring Drag Kings — which is a guide, a free downloadable guide for coming up with your Drag King name, because that can be a really good place to start. And you've taught us a lot about how to be punny with Drag King names. What's your Drag King name?
Chris aka Chase Cocks: Chase Cocks.
Danica: Chase Cocks, yeah. So Chase Cocks, you know, very funny, very punny, very relatable, actually. Lives up to his name.
Chris aka Chase Cocks: Funny thing about the name is, it is the first thing that often people think about, isn't it? They go straight away — the first thing they think about when you're thinking about Drag is, "Oh, well, what would my name be?" And in fact, yesterday I met two people yesterday at a wedding — that queer wedding that we went to. Yes. And they were speculating on being like, "If I was a Drag King, what name would I have? Oh, maybe you can help with that." And just on the spot, and I've just met them, and I thought, "Probably Danica is the better person to talk about what name you might have." But you have a lot of resources, like you say, of how you might come up with the name, other than just coming up with a pun that means nothing, but actually relating it to you and who you are as well. So I would highly recommend people check out that resource.
Danica: Thank you. Yes, you can get it at danicalani.com/dragkingname, so you can find it there.
And lastly, what does being a community builder — you know, we've built community together through Queers of Joy, through Kings of Joy, and globally through connecting with people around the world, including our dear fam Block 13, who are a group of Ugandan refugees who fled Uganda, ended up in Kakuma in Kenya, in the world's second-largest refugee camp, and the majority of them have now relocated in Canada. So what is being a community builder?
Chris aka Chase Cocks: It's an extra driving force. So we can put on shows, and we can talk about the fun that we have, and the being on stage and the applause and stuff. But that doesn't always carry the day if you're feeling — as we do, we go through times where life might be difficult and there's things that we're dealing with, or illnesses, or family being ill, and stuff like that, or losing a relative, or feeling like it's too hard sometimes. So the aspect of Block 13 — that our friends have been the driving force when I needed that — was like, "No, I'm not doing this for me. I'm doing it because it actually makes a difference to other people." Yes. And yeah, that has been a huge drive, connecting with Lucretia and everyone, and I class them as dear friends now, and one day we will meet in person on a dance floor.
Danica: Yes.
Chris aka Chase Cocks: But even though we haven't met in person, there's an intimacy and a familial relationship with them that I think is closer — a closer bond than I have with people I do know in person, some people.
And actually last night, someone who just did my comedy workshop and performed for the first time last night was acknowledging the two of us for building community and said, "Where would the community be now without you two?" Which was very weird to hear, because even though it's been five years, it feels very new, like we're still the newbies on the block. So I was very modest about it, but probably overly modest, like, "Oh no, if we weren't doing it, someone else would."
But I think that we can acknowledge ourselves for the type of community that we've built, that it is one that people feel that they belong to, not that they're just included in, but they actually belong. And it's the type of community that people uplift each other, and it's the type of community that they can go away as long as they want, and then they come back, and we welcome people back with open arms. And we have, yeah, we just have that beautiful community. And it's not just a show, it's not just a performance, it's not just being a Drag King, it's not just being a comedian, it's — it's got all this other stuff which enriches everyone's lives that are involved.
Danica: Beautifully said. Thank you, my love.
Chris aka Chase Cocks: Thank you, my darling.
Danica: Thank you for being a guest on The Kings of Joy Show.
Chris aka Chase Cocks: Thank you for asking me.
Danica: Yeah.
Chris aka Chase Cocks: That would have been awkward if you hadn't.
Danica: Yes.
Chris aka Chase Cocks: And yes to marrying me as well.
Danica: Absolutely.
